LasoorJoin Date: 2016-01-17
Post Count: 5596 |
Basically the issue here is by protecting the LGBT couple from being excluded from a bakery that is owned by someone who hates LGBT people you are taking away the baker store owners rights. He is now forced into serving people he despises just because the LGBT people make a big deal about it. If I was the I would be insulted and just leave the bakery and find some other place to eat, not sue or whatever.
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EltorkJoin Date: 2009-03-11
Post Count: 13129 |
"Thank God you don't make the law. People would be denying other people service because their hair looked a certain way that the other person didn't like."
You're right. I didn't make the law. I'm in full support of who did make the laws, the Founding Fathers. Although I believe some aspects of the constitution could be changed, I believe that they hole the value of personal speech far better than any empire at the time. Although they only wanted it for higher class citizens, that simple ideology has been interpenetrated into something every individual deserves. |
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gugesJoin Date: 2016-05-07
Post Count: 1515 |
do you REALLY want to open up the can of worms that is business' declining service for whatever menial reason? I hope you enjoy having your selection of services being restricted by who you work for etc etc |
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xshafeexJoin Date: 2010-07-22
Post Count: 3580 |
@Inductive
Morals are important precisely due to the nonexistence of God. It's a good thing that morals are relative because we're not being told what is right and wrong from a piece of archaic scripture. If we're truly good human beings, we will do what is right, without being told from a book. As to the example you gave, I think society as a whole can agree that rounding up and shooting people is not morally right. |
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ExoFallJoin Date: 2014-11-29
Post Count: 5285 |
eltork has a stronk arguement |
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LasoorJoin Date: 2016-01-17
Post Count: 5596 |
@guges, I wouldn't give people my business if they were hating on me for any reason. And most business owners don't insult their customers in any way regardless of who they are since that's bad business and they need the money.
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EltorkJoin Date: 2009-03-11
Post Count: 13129 |
The government and government funded businesses should not have the right to discriminate, but private owned businesses should have the right to.
The first amendment protects you from saying what you want about the government and other people without being incarcerated. It doesn't protect you from the obvious backlash of the social community and media. |
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xshafeexJoin Date: 2010-07-22
Post Count: 3580 |
@Eltork
You misunderstand me. I don't advocate for the discrimination of any group, majority or minority. It's just that it is extremely difficult and almost impossible for minorities to discriminate against the majority in any significant way. As to the existence of God, that's a completely different argument and one that I don't want to get into. |
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gugesJoin Date: 2016-05-07
Post Count: 1515 |
You guys are thinking small business but what about large corporations? This could get real ugly really fast and you aren't even considering it |
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InductiveJoin Date: 2012-05-28
Post Count: 6480 |
Xsha, so if I personally don't have morals it's alright for me to kill others as long as I don't get caught. |
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xshafeexJoin Date: 2010-07-22
Post Count: 3580 |
@Inductive
According to YOUR morals, sure, it would be correct. But according to MY morals and the majority of society's morals, you would be a cold-blooded killer, and it would certainly not be OK. All I'm trying to say is that neither God nor a holy book is needed to have good morals. |
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LasoorJoin Date: 2016-01-17
Post Count: 5596 |
@guges, In today's society big businesses would go bankrupt if they began being discriminatory. Too many people are strongly against discrimination now to point where if you are a racist you'll be hated on by everyone. Being a racist is an insult in today's society and so is being anti-LGBT since many people have LGBT friends.
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InductiveJoin Date: 2012-05-28
Post Count: 6480 |
Society has been wrong so often before, though. Slavery was A-OK for a long time. Society was racist for an awfully long time too, and society's values change incredibly easily. Not to mention the fact that society often makes really, really bad decisions (See the 2016 Presidential campaign) |
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Tander09Join Date: 2010-04-07
Post Count: 237 |
It is not LGBT anymore, it is LGBTQYHFMBNVCR. That is how insane they have become. |
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@xsha
your whole argument is invalidated by the fact that you can't disprove God. You can't prove him but you also can't disprove him. Science and Religion need to stay separate for that reason. I understand what you're saying, but I can't make an argument based solely on the idea that God exists. While I believe that and I incorporate that into my argument, my argument is based on the beliefs I follow through the bible, which empirically exists. Just wanted to point this out-not saying you're wrong and you can believe whatever you want but an argument is automatically invalidated if its stance is based on something that cannot be proved(not whether or not it has already been proved or disproved, but literally cannot be proven or disproven with the evidence at hand)
Anyhow, my issue with this whole argument is that it's an exceedingly complex issue. Legally speaking, according to the 1964 CR act, this type of discrimination by a business is illegal. Morally speaking, it's just plain wrong, but when you look at constitutional values, the business owners have the right.
And the issue is, the business owner cannot refuse service based on orientation. His rights at that point come into conflict with the rights of the consumer and in this sort of situation a compromise is necessary. A business owner has the right to deter, to be outspoken, to hang whatever sort of LGBT(or racist, or anti-religious) propaganda they want in their store, but if an LGBT(or other minority) requests to be served, they cannot be refused service based solely on the fact that they are a minority.
This whole debate is based on whose rights are more important in this situation, and in this case human rights(those brought to the table by the LGBT side) are more highly regarded. The business owner does have rights, but when they come into conflict with fundamental human rights, they need to be given a back seat. Maintaining business owner rights is crucial, but far more crucial than that is maintaining the unalienable human rights of the consumers.
And I think, despite all of that, calling LGBT a scam because of this is a bit much. |
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ImitaterJoin Date: 2012-08-17
Post Count: 29994 |
they expect tolerance while distolerating the views of others |
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EltorkJoin Date: 2009-03-11
Post Count: 13129 |
Again, I'm fine with people expressing their views but what Imitater said, don't be hypocritical on expressing how oppressed you are by using a liberal community to back you up and shut down anyone who disagrees with you.
The community created by a bunch of LGBT people no longer stand for its original purpose, and that's to protect anyone who wasn't 'normal'. Now it's to bash anyone who is 'normal'. So to speak. |
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