WannaBetJoin Date: 2011-01-01
Post Count: 23607 |
you can not pin vak for influencing this by speaking about the way it conducted itself during the tgi war. the shift of attitudes has existed prior to the tgi war and has been even noted being a serious problem by brickster in his recognition of defeat thread.
vak always had a reputation for taking wars too seriously and up to a certain point members of the community remarked it as something that they did not want in their own clans. skip a couple of years later, and suddenly this mindset of prioritizing wars over anything else is distilled into the minds of clan leaders despite vak being progressively more secluded from the clan world overtime.
if vak is the one responsible, how come their antics haven't influenced the way clans acted for many years, but have began to spread roughly in 2012 when vak pushed itself even further away from influencing the way other groups conducted themselves than in prior years? something else must've happened particularly in 2012 which resulted in the spread of their war obsession. quite coincidentally, this is around the time void started to catch attention (mostly as a joke of a clan) by spamming its feats against tra. |
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WolfaneJoin Date: 2011-03-08
Post Count: 7490 |
As far as this argument with VAK being responsible for petty tactics being used in wars.
I'd say that may as well be partly true, as in being partly responsible. If in the case of what I know you are referencing, I'd say that the only reason it may have come to that point. Was due to the obsession other clans had with VAK, sitting there ready to take out of proportion every action that was taken. Making, in the over-exaggerated form which was established, have these "unacceptable Vaktovian actions!!!" be set as an example for others.
Summed up: Only seems that VAK set bad examples, because every action we took was always taken out of proportion by obsessed outsiders.
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I disagree with this, there are clans that didn't and doesn't revolve around it. I personally want to join the group because my friends on Roblox said they were skilled and you can learn a lot that's all. |
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SCR0LLSJoin Date: 2009-10-07
Post Count: 7086 |
There is no such thing as a "clean war" wether if it was in real life or in a video game
A war is a war you do anything you can do to win it you go to whatever limits to achieve success no matter what the others say about you
You know what I like about Vaktovia?
Not because it is the best clan out there but that they don't give two craps about what the c&g community have to say they have been with the best they have beat the best one way or another and it is unarguably successful in maintaining high maturity levels combined with tremendous respect among the members whether if it was HR LR VAC anything
We are equals in VAK we all serve the same purpose and we are taught from the scratch that we are a family
Tell me does any other clan out there encourage that?
I don't think so |
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WannaBetJoin Date: 2011-01-01
Post Count: 23607 |
ruining the state of clans by perpetuating a destructive ideal is more harmful than any positive vak could ever bring and I challenge anyone to name positive things vak have done that could offset how obsessed this community is with wars
luckily for whoever supports vak, I don't see a direct linkage and I don't blame vak as being the main entity responsible for this. they share a significant portion of the blame but their roles are exceeded by hype groups. |
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WannaBetJoin Date: 2011-01-01
Post Count: 23607 |
scrolls,
how you are affected internally by the way your leaders handle your community is entirely irrelevant in a discussion about the influences vak had on the general community |
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SCR0LLSJoin Date: 2009-10-07
Post Count: 7086 |
And don't start with the "they take it too seriously" because in my point of view of it shows anything it shows the determination and ambition to keep going and not giving up till the end |
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WannaBetJoin Date: 2011-01-01
Post Count: 23607 |
that's nice, but once again, the features you personally like about vak is irrelevant to this discussion |
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FalmsJoin Date: 2016-03-30
Post Count: 642 |
Hail!
run |
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SCR0LLSJoin Date: 2009-10-07
Post Count: 7086 |
As much as you think that that is irrelevant to the subject that is incorrect because what I said in the very begging is that the clan world are influenced by only the negatives and not the positives of VAK |
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WannaBetJoin Date: 2011-01-01
Post Count: 23607 |
that's not true, the clan community can be influenced both positively and negative by individual clans. I don't understand your counter argument.
talking about what you like about the community is irrelevant in this discussion since it has nothing to do with influencing the rest of the community. |
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no, it would be nearly impossible to solely blame vak for the actions of specific clans and individuals in the perpetuation of this clan attitude, nor do i argue this. i strongly believe in an individual's freedom of choice, so the use of dirty tactics and cheating in the modern day clan community would largely fall on the clans that commit those actions
however, vak had the moral responsibility to stick to those traditional clan values that it had once embodied. now, this isnt saying that vak had to stay in a set role and it could never deviate from any course, however, the deviation from a once (somewhat) honorable clan to the actions it committed was a total flip flop. even if vak did not want these responsibilities, they come about with any individual or group in power - whether on this site or in real life. with power comes responsibility, you represent a larger force or idea other than yourself. you'll always have people that follow in your footsteps or people that are influenced by you - you are in fact near the top and people dream and/or wish to become that force
to suggest that vak's "mistake" or one fault isn't that big of a deal is something i find a bit absurd. this isnt your average mistake (at the time period) and the extent of vak's cheating and dirty tactics was so large that it can hardly be looked over. that position of influence vak held spread like a disease across the clan world. they acted as a catalyst towards this clan attitude of doing anything to win - and this attitude was put on center stage as they knew the spotlight was on this war and each of tgi's and vak's actions
perhaps if it was a one time thing i would lessen their responsibility over this shift in clan attitude, however, their cheating has happened MULTIPLE TIMES. this is where i find the most fault in vak - they NEVER learned from their mistakes nor did they take steps to inhibit the progression of this clan attitude. rather than owning up to their mistakes, they rubbed this victory in with tgi and then committed the SAME ACTIONS as they had done in the tgi/vak war. vak has not won a single war since the time of that engagement without the use of dirty tactics and cheating, and they have proven time and time again that they would rather perpetuate this clan attitude rather than destroying it.
while i point towards vak's actions in the tgi/vak war as being an extremely destructive behavior to the rest of the clan community, it is the fact that they committed the same immoralities time and time again afterwards. sure, if it happened just in the vak/tgi war people could point towards a singular time where these type of actions could be used, but it is the fact that vak continued to perpetuate this clan attitude and show the clan world that they could remain >"on top"< through the continuation of these actions that make them such an influence
i am not doubting the influence of hype clans in the progression of this clan attitude, but i believe that the majority of said progression came as a result of vak's behaviors and actions. hype and power clans held no where near the amount of influence a strong super clan or clans such as vak/tgi held, and so even if they did begin to commit atrocities, these influences were very little in terms of the big picture. however, in the modern day, these hype/power clans continue to perpetuate this clan attitude, so i dont doubt their destructiveness as of now |
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SCR0LLSJoin Date: 2009-10-07
Post Count: 7086 |
Well from everything you've said so far you are clearly pointing out that they are not influenced by the things VAK is doing good and only "learned" to cheat during wars and what not |
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no, im saying vak had a large influence over the development and progression of the disastrous clan attitude (doing anything to win) that has gripped clans. i hold them responsible for the spreading of this clan attitude, not the individual actions that clans commit |
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SCR0LLSJoin Date: 2009-10-07
Post Count: 7086 |
I was addressing wanna but okay |
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FiIlipeJoin Date: 2011-11-24
Post Count: 13774 |
c_p is a newbag doesn't know much do1
sup dude
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VAK is the most influential clan in the history of clans, I can agree, but the most successful or best? That's completely different.
VAK started what's now commonplace with the "do anything to win" mantra that consumes clans.
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WannaBetJoin Date: 2011-01-01
Post Count: 23607 |
ned, your response fails to establish the connections necessary to put vak as the pedestal on which this obsession with wars has been built on. if vak is responsible, how come the shift in this mindset has not happened far earlier when they were more powerful and more involved with the rest of the community? how could the linkage between the rise of hype groups in late 2012 be explained with the turning point clans have come to from being active to increasingly inactive?
vak has poor war conduct. this is something that has remained true for a significant period of time, but they have not influenced others to follow in their footsteps and have in fact been hurt by it in prior 'generations' (rat for example sustained incredible raid losses, yet has been declared the winner in the vak v rat war by many people and groups because it possessed far greater soft power while vak has been disliked).
furthermore, your connection of vak as the clan responsible for this further proves that you don't understand when this issue really began or where it exactly stems from. the problem has already existed to a very large degree when tgi waged war on vak:
"I've been around this game for a while. I've served in many groups as a leader, a soldier, an owner. For many people who have been around as long as I have, I know we can comment on the deterioration of groups and the contemporary clan world.
It's full of preaching "fairness" and "equality" at bases but at the same time, leaders want nothing fair, they want to win. There is extreme pride, and that pride sometimes gets in the way of doing the right and honest thing these days."
- castellian
https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=129160123 |
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WannaBetJoin Date: 2011-01-01
Post Count: 23607 |
scrolls I have no clue what your argument is |
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SCR0LLSJoin Date: 2009-10-07
Post Count: 7086 |
*facedesk* |
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"if vak is responsible, how come the shift in this mindset has not happened far earlier when they were more powerful and more involved with the rest of the community?"
because vak had never committed the atrocities it did during the tgi/vak war, nor did their dirty tactics ever raise to such an extent. the tgi/vak war had the spotlight of the entire clan community, c&g being the platform for everyone to watch and for vak to progress this clan attitude
sure, vak had things in the past such as atacs which were unfair, but you have to remember that defender advantages such as these were oftentimes countered with other base features (5v25s for example). during the tgi/vak war, the base updating and unfairness rose to a new level within clans, actions that the whole clan world saw and went "Hmm, I could be just like VAK (as in powerful) if I do this!"
vak didnt go around openly encouraging their use of tactics to other clans - but by being one of the top clans and being looked up to as something that a clan might want to become, their attitude and tactics were able to be replicated, and were in fact replicated. individuals and other groups wanted to become the best, they saw that by engaging in tactics such as what vak had done they can come out on top, and they can still be accepted for it.
vak not only demonstrated that a clan can reach the top with these tactics - they showed that they can stay there and "dominate" through the continuation of said tactics. if a smaller clan (or bigger for super clans) wants to become better and they look at what vak did and the attitude they progressed, of course they would follow this to become better.
i dont place a large responsibility on vak for simply the tgi/vak war. while this was a major event, its the CONTINUATION of this attitude and cheating throughout the remainder of vak's war that perpetuated and advertised the usage of said attitude. to this day, vak has not won a war without the use of dirty tactics since before the tgi/vak war. it only continues to show clans that this attitude is acceptable and that their clan can still be viewed as good by the clan community (just as vak is)
i do not argue that vak created this clan attitude and that it is solely vak that did everything. sure, things such as this may have gone on a bit before vak's antics, but clans that committed such actions were NO WHERE near the "top" of the food chain. their influence was extremely small compared to that of vak's, so even if vak wasnt the first to commit said actions, they were the most responsible for the sparking of this clan attitude within the clan community as a whole.
the continuation of this clan attitude is not solely on vak though. vak, while they did continue these tactics while only further perpetuated this clan attitude, was assisted by hype and power clans that took this clan attitude after the vak/tgi war and truly embodied it until it was a virus that had infected all
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Gann3xJoin Date: 2014-07-09
Post Count: 65 |
vak>>>> end of discussion lads |
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WannaBetJoin Date: 2011-01-01
Post Count: 23607 |
that's not true nederlandz, vak has always been very consistent with the strategies it used to win wars. on top of that, need I remind you that this problem has long existed before the vak-tgi war so pin pointing vak as the group most responsible for this attitude makes no sense because it has already existed for years prior to the war's beginning.
if you are going to switch your argument to being about vak continuing this mindset with their actions then you are incorrect to say that they have caused it, because continuing something and making something happen are two different things. the clan that share the most responsibility are the ones that brought this upon the rest of the community in the first place, not those who continued to wrongfully perpetuate it.
if anything, working with your concluding sentence, it was vak who 'assisted the hype clans', not the hype clans 'assisting vak'. |
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