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So I was browsing around on C&G and I stumble upon this thread - https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=206537690
Within this thread you can find a flame war that largely argues the fairness of Sierra and Alianor II in comparison. Reading the comments and views/perspectives on what other people think of this got me wanting to put down my thoughts, but much, much, MUCH more in depth. If you want a complete understanding of what my main purpose or what I'm trying to go at then please read the entire thread of near the end if you already have a close understanding on my thoughts.
From my experience I find A2 to be much more enjoyable than Sierra, like a lot more. What I find about Sierra is that it's very boring until you have the bomb armed and your massacring the on coming FoL as they attempt I regain terminal back and in vain not gaining a single kill from their my rushes.
A2 offers much more similar weaponry compared to what the rest of the clan world uses, which people may find more appeasing.
While Sierra uses a slight less/different untraditional weaponry compared to most clans. This gives the defenders or RAT a edge with having much more familiarity on how the weaponry works and how to use them effectively.
Both forts require some amount of communication and discipline to win at. At A2 you may see clans attempting to keep the gate open allowing reinforcements to arrive much quicker, adding into that; A2 is a 1200 second terminal fort. Once you've have gate and terminal control the defenders get a little mixed up on their priorities, considering that FEAR usually uses the average member every defense and not their elites, you'll see half of them going for term and the other half going for gate. The only only unfair issue I have with A2 would be FEARs access to gate from spawn and their straight mountain access from terminal. Their mountain of route allows them to shoot down onto people heading to terminal with ease. But it defenders can coordinate and get through that then the raid should be won with somewhat ease.
Now, when I look at Sierra and based on my experience there (you can credit the CSP - RAT for the knowledge I do have of this base) it's extremely unpleasant and hard to raid or even win at. Being able to pick up bomb is pure luck, there is no skill required on having the ability to pick up the bomb. With RAT only using their elites to defend along with their spawn advantage of almost immediately being able to shoot bomb off of their spawn area, it's very frustrating. The winning strategy there to win was to wait for hours for everyone to attain enough aurem to purchase a medi-gun which would eventually be used to heal one person that is picking up the bomb at the and time. But what makes this unfair? Only a select few clans have the skill, time, and coordination to pull this off. When JC raided Sierra a while back FoL members were still being used o defend against such a clan.
It may be the fault of "doing anything to win" cough VAK cough ideal that makes clans think that making their base harder to win at because they lose a lot at their fort justifiable. I've witnessed (VAKs don't get triggered and demand for proof because I'm not gonna go looking back weeks of threads just to find quotes) complain about "if they win then they'll call us bad, but if they lose they'll call the fort but CSP is still able to win here" I remember this being said a while back with the thread or subject of the thread being talked about Swampy Moon Outpost's (VAKs base for you guys that don't know) fairness. Something about this quote really does seem to relate back to the ideal of "doing anything to win" or the fear of being criticized over a win, this is ROBLOX, it's a game, it's life. You're going to be criticized no matter what if you're on the opposing side. Back to the the part where it mentions "but CSP is still able to win here" CSP is the ONLY clan that is able to consistently win at SMO at all, their raid wins required ONLY THE BEST raiders that were outside of VAK in order to win. All other clans that have been able to win there in recent time have only been able to do so because one they were lucky and able to get easier defenders or two their elitists were attempting to throw off the other server and another group raided and was able to have much easier defenders. In both of those cases they only happened VERY few times, reasoning for this is probably because it takes 40 minutes for VAK to deploy to defend one server.
It's bases like SMO and Sierra that discourage the much more smaller clans from attempting to raid them. It's to be new and welcome people into clans when clans are setting a new standard requiring that you need a semi-good par raiding team in order to win at a majority of bases. Some bases requiring only very elite raiders in order to win at all.
When you have clans preparing to go to war and they're in the processes of base testing/nerfs, you'll often see both sides using their elites to conducting these tests. This is a flawed way to do this (this happened in the FoA-VAK negotiations). Using your elites to judge the fairness of a fort only measures the skill for how would a elite v elite raid/defense would turn out. Leaving the average members dealing with an elite based fort to deal with. You can't expect your normal members to raid SMO and expect them to have fun or be successful at all. The only ones benefiting from this are the elites because they are the only ones that have the ability to have fun and win and be successful at such forts. Looking at what I just stated, how do you see normal FoA members being able to win at all at SMO vice versa with the same being said with VACs/Normal VAKs at SH2 (even though SH2 is much more fair than SMO even back then and now).
SOLUTIONS:
1. Clans need to be able to accept a loss and make their forts easier
2. This is just a suggestion but if you're going to war please make it so that the average raiding force of the opposing clan has somewhat of a possibility to a few times at your fort
https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=206543567
3. Now, for this last solution, I've shared this with quite a few people and this should be appeasing for most clans.
•Clans can keep their current hard version of their fort (make it harder of it's already easy) This is to target the elites of the raiding clan
•Make several different or few versions of the same fort but easier. This is to target the average member of the clan raiding, or in other words "the not elites/good people"
I just want to shoutout TRA for making a nice fair base to raid considering today's standards. Even though it maybe very difficult and unfun to raid when you're solo raiding (it's mainly because I'm getting shot at by helicopters or shot by people in the ground with RPGs that I can't do much about). But all in all, good base.
Shoutout to Nederlandz's thread which touches somewhat near this topic. If you found this thread interesting to read you'll find his as well - https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=194275981
Please take note this is just my opinion. If you have any thoughts or questions please post down below!
NiteOwlFac |
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RadoocJoin Date: 2013-04-20
Post Count: 3430 |
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-sips tea- |
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im going to read all of this then respond to it.
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TENSHlJoin Date: 2014-05-16
Post Count: 5722 |
Yeah but if the defenders are even slightly competent you shouldn't be able to get on gate
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"NiteOwlFac": stop typing
"NiteOwlFac": im making an essay on ROBLOX
i see!
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Nice article dude, bumping out of kindness.
And thanks for the shoutout. Always appreciated. |
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bobospellJoin Date: 2011-05-29
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oh ok this thread actually makes sense |
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tom2cuteJoin Date: 2010-05-03
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"NiteOwlFac": stop typing
"NiteOwlFac": im making an essay on ROBLOX
lmao dude you spent over 30 minutes, im dead
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+1 from ya boi
true colors is the best war clan in robucks |
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ok i read it for the most part
i've been saying this for awhile now. the elitism is a huge issue. i wouldn't go as far as making a huge thread about it but the readable portions of this give a good explanation on why the elitism is such a problem.
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Mum_meJoin Date: 2014-04-21
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Legit. |
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stitchedJoin Date: 2009-05-01
Post Count: 4618 |
uh
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I'm sorry but I'm not reading all of that Nite LOL.
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Good thread maybe RAT will take it into consideration even though they consider Sierra fair lol |
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tldr
clans need to make forts more fair. the current standard is too hard to welcome in new people requiring good people to win
thread goes over many examples and situations why this is true (in my opinion) |
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there is a tl;dr sel
you can skim it for 10 seconds and get the tl;dr
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@TENSHII
"Yeah but if the defenders are even slightly competent you shouldn't be able to get on gate"
You're right
If A2 has somewhat competent defenders defending that it makes it extremely difficult to win let alone get past the obby/gate
But now that grenades are removed as Externalization said in the first thread it should be MUCH more easier than before, but still difficult |
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Ya agreed with p much all of it, also I'd say SMO and Sierra are both harder than A2 but A2 is pretty unfair too lol. |
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KiroTearJoin Date: 2012-04-26
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support |
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