EspithelJoin Date: 2009-10-09
Post Count: 20917 |
>WARNING: THIS POST IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE LONG. I DON'T KNOW YET; I'VE ONLY MADE THESE FEW SENTENCES IN CAPS. BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU; WHEN IT COMES TO SNIPING ROBLOX'S IDEAS BEFORE THEY MAKE THEM AND THEN IMPROVING THEM TO A RIDICULOUS EXTENT THEY DO TEND TO GET A LITTLE BIT MORE MASSIVE. INFACT, THIS FIRST PARAGRAPH ALONE IS BIGGER THAN 20% OF ALL OF THE IDEAS ON S&I EVER, WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT INTIMIDATING. TL;DR: THIS POST IS PROBABLY VERY LONG.<
The blog is magical.
Before you even begin reading the bulk of the thread, I would like you to read an extract from one of roblox's blog posts.
(Blog link, so I can sort of feel justified for making you read an entire paragraph if you think it's fake: http://blog.roblox.com/2013/01/responding-to-user-feedback-v13/)
"My second thought about publishing goes to your concerns about attribution and copyright. We can’t solve these problems technically. The music industry has tried and failed, and they have way more resources than we do. We would like to solve this problem, however, because then we could allow users to sell models – something that we think would be very exciting to many players. We have been kicking around the idea of a ROBLOX “copyright court” for years – basically a copy protection system run by players (as jury members) for the express purpose of determining if X is a copy of Y. This system would make it possible for users with a good reputation to sell models. If someone steals your model, sells it, and you “sue” them in copyright court, the system would award you royalties on those sales and the miscreant would lose reputation and would not be able to sell models for a while. This is obviously a very complicated system to get right, which is the reason why it doesn’t exist already."
Yeah. This idea is basically centralling around that very quote.
"This is obviously a very complicated system to get right, which is the reason why it doesn’t exist already."
Pfft. And you said trading systems were difficult to get right.
Anyway, enough beating around the bush being wierd and drinking lemonade. This is that "copyright court" system that roblox is "kicking" suggested in a way that is actually amazing and decent. I've already made thier blueprints for the trading system just outrageously better (See the current version of HOTS for more info) And also blueprints for the crafting system that none of you remember.
So, the basic idea as of now:
The admins want to stop copyright in this way:
People can sue others for saying "copyright infringement"
A user-determined "jury" states if the reported item is a copy of the other item.
If so, the defendant repays funding (should there be one.)
Now, I have a hobby for snipping ideas in a way that is better than roblox's inital ideas themselves, and this is no exception. I will be revamping that moment of insider-info of this "community jury" to a way that it is actually implimentable.
Okay, I'll legitmately start now.
So, instead of "suing" people, there should be instead this option for determining lawsuits:
Like places, models should have a copylock function. Uncopylocked models cannot be stated as an original copy, because it's loling copylocked.
To check for "copyright infringement" You can see something called a model/decal usage log. Because that should be made. This log tells you if someone uses it in thier place, favourites it, buys it, deletes it, etc. Not comments and stuff.
Here's a really bad checklist for what can be copylocked, what has a useage log, and what can be a target of a lawsuit:
(Fpost = Forum posts, btw.) (Comm. = Comment, btw.) (G.Ps = Game passes, btw.)
Item/Quality.|Copylocked?....|Useage log?..|Lawsuit target?
#1: Groups...|No, they can't.|Yes, audit. ...| No, they can't.
#2: Places....|Yes, they can..|Yes they do...|Yes, they can.
#3: Decals....|No, they can't.|Yes they do...| No, they can't. (Think about it.)
#4: Adverts..|Yes, they can..|Not really, no|Yes, they can.
#5: Models...|Yes, they can..| Yes, they do.| Yes, they can.
#6: Sets......|Dependant*....| Yes, they do.|Dependant*.
#7: Fpost....|No, they can't.|Not really, no.| No, they can't.
#8: Comm..|No, they can't..|Not really, no.|No, they can't.
#9: Bagdes|No, they can't...|Not really, no.| No, they can't.
#10: G.Ps..|No, they can't...|Yes, they do...|No, they can't.
#11: Pants| Yes, they can...|Yes, they do...|Yes, they can.
#12: Shirts|\-------//-------/|\------//------/|Yes, they can.
#13:Tshirts|\-------//-------/|\------//------/|Yes, they can.
*= I am thinking that sets can be bought. If the set is full of items that people can buy or is for sale itself, then yes, it works like a model.
(I am really sorry for just how bad that checklist is.)
So, yeah.
Moving on, all things that can be copyrighted are done so in thier page.
But, when it comes to selling items, we have to get technical.
So, instead of merging the "for sale" bit with all of the t-shirts and shirts, we instead will have a button that says "place this item for sale."
Then, you set the price, set for models if it is an updating model*, and set the copylock.
Why is this?
Because... you'll have to see for the suing. There are a few technical hitches I am thinking of, and this just gets rid of them by copying the item, but making it seperate.
(*= Just a side-suggestion. We should have updating models, so if the owner updates the model, the purchasers don't/do have thier purchase edited.)
An item sold in this new way will not be able to change if it is copylocked or not. Otherwise, it's like a normal model.
And with sets... you can figure it out.
Q:
"Why not just copylock anything that can be sold?"
A:
Well, some people (like me) don't actually like copyright. We think that we should be free to copy and steal what we want. We should be allowed to listen to what music we feel like when. What's that xkcd line... ah yes: "Dear sony, microsoft, apple, the RIAA and the MPAA: When you stop telling me when and where I can listen to my music, I will stop approaching on your homes with my massive wall of ice." Music should be free... Well, this isn't music, but the point still stands. Some people are happy to serve, copylocked or otherwise. I'm happy for people to copy and steal my work; it proves that what I made is good. I'm really ironic sometimes: I suggest things I probably won't even use. This is one of those examples.
Q:
"Can you file a lawsuit against something that isn't copylocked, if your item is copylocked?"
The copylock only determines if you can state that the copylocked item is the original, and use it to file copyright against it. TL;DR: Yes.
So, some questions out of the way.
Onto the suing itself.
0) There are three problems as of far:
1) What if the user is unaware of the item that is it apparantly a copy of,
2) What if the user steals an item then changes it?
3) How do we stop report indigestion?
So:
When you sue someone, you have to report abuse, "Report copy"
When you do, you have to state what it is a copy of from your stuff.
During this bit, roblox will state what is a copy, and what isn't.
Repliers, vote below on what will count.
The roblox computer will also keep a list of all the pages you go to on roblox in the catalog, place, game page or profile, up to 35000 pages ago. Which isn't really that much considering it rationally. If the computer finds an URL from that person's hidden list to your item, the system will consider it a valid case.
If they can't, the system will check your item's usage log up to 75000 actions ago. If they find the person taking the item (I'm thinking of *FREE* models here.) in that usage log, they also consider the case valid.
That removes problem 1 AND 2 AND 3 all at once.
If something is being lawsuited, niether the defendant or plaintiff item can be edited, just so you know.
Now, to the moderation.
Actually, I think personally that we can go thurther can copyright court for this community moderation.
How about a new page, called the "moderation" page?
Basically, normal people can help moderate for mods. We *MIGHT* allow people to get paid. Probably not, but oh well. It works pretty similar to the copyright complaints stated below.
Anyway, in this moderation page, pick "copyright complaints" and then ey presto.
Here's how it works:
Two pictures are shown. Who owns them, thier name, etc, all unknown. Prevents friendship.
People are allowed to view version histories of each item, and then state if the left (plaintiff item) has been copied by the right (defendant item.)
To prevent trolling, the first X submissions by someone don't count.
After 150 submissions for the copyright case, or after 48 hours, a mod takes a look at these figures, same with the report system. Then the mod makes a choice and bans appropriately.
For normal reports, they state if it is against the rules (They have a rulebook) and after 10 submissions it's fowarded to an admin who makes a choice.
Now, I'm really bored making this, predictably.
So I'm going to leave it here.
The rest is just a tie-up, but oh well.
If you someone got over here, yeah.
Q&A:
"TL;DR"
Thanks for the support.
"No support"
Thanks for the support.
"No support because of this, this should happen instead"
Thank you for the critisism.
"This bit is a little flawed, let's try this instead."
Thank you for the critisism.
"Why so long?"
So I can show you an idea without massive ammounts of "how does this work?" questions. |