sdfgwTop 50 PosterJoin Date: 2009-01-08
Post Count: 41681 |
"You can't really wrap your mind around something like that"
how old are you |
|
8SunTzu8Join Date: 2011-09-30
Post Count: 8199 |
Why should I get out because I don't feel like it?
This thread is off topic anyway, and we should all stop posting.
Math is an invention, and I'd say logic isn't, but I can't prove that.
Math didn't exist when the universe was created.
Logic might not have either. Most organisms can't use logic either.
Anyway, I am no mathematician, I don't really care much about math either. I have lost interest in it. I know enough about math to survive, and I have not improved my ability to critically think through taking math courses at all. That might be hard to believe, but none of you know me, so you can't disprove it or state it isn't true either.
Besides, I like areas of grey/gray.
It's math, and we disagree on it. While you pick at my argument, you ignore the paradox I have shown you. Two different things cannot be the same thing.
Philosopher, Creator, Clanner, Wiki Writer, and Student |
|
|
@8SunTzu8
You're assuming there that the sum of an infinite number of numbers is necessarily infinite. This is not the case.
_________________________________________________________________________
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkOtaris |
|
EverestyJoin Date: 2009-10-08
Post Count: 6156 |
ViHart, on youtube, has proven why this is and is not correct. This is all based, or at least remembered (could be wrong) from her videos.
The "x = 0.999.."
x = 0.999...
(* 10)
10x = 9.999...
(- x)
9x = 9
(/ 9)
x = 1
Why its wrong:
You say x = 0.999... but you later say its 1.
_________________________________________________________________________
I possess 16K+ ROBUX and 968 tickets. |
|
8SunTzu8Join Date: 2011-09-30
Post Count: 8199 |
Mathematics is the notation. It's algebra, geometry, trigonometry, calculus, etc...
Logic is what math represents. But I can't be sure if that is an invention or if it is inherent. If it is an invention, then perhaps another life form as evolved as us, elsewhere, has created an entirely different system for explaining the world around us. That's what I care about, that's what I question, and that's what interests me.
0.9.. and 1 don't matter in the grand scheme of things. And if people can figure out things with them being unequal that lead to progress, they yay. If those same people had continued to accept that they were equivalent, then whatever progress they made wouldn't have been made.
Don't be so closed minded.
I don't think anyone can wrap their mind around a repeating decimal. I can easily understand it as something that never ends, and then use it as if it did end. Which seems paradoxical in nature, but whatever, it's math.
I don't think math accurately conveys math, in the same way that language cannot always accurately convey our thoughts. Trying to explain color to a blind man is not possible with our language. To do so, they would need to see color in their minds.
Anyway, don't mind me. I am a skeptical person. That whole (x-x)/(x-x) thing I thought about because of calculus, and I attempted to disprove mathematics using it, although, I found out that it's considered dividing by 0, and it's a fallacy. Too bad, but I questioned calculus when I was first introduced to it because we just cut things off in the same manner.
You can't change my mind about this. I'm too stubborn for you, and none of you have presented sufficient proof. Algebra is an invention, and using it to prove something seems faulty in my mind. Use logic to prove it, but we can only represent logic with a language of some sort. Which is why you cannot wrap your mind around a number such as 0.9..., if it is even a number that is, because we convert it from something into math. Picture in your head a number that continues forever.
Philosopher, Creator, Clanner, Wiki Writer, and Student |
|
|
@18cwatford
Well, I don't see how that proves that it's wrong. It doesn't actually prove anything.
If I say that x = 1, and later say that x = x, does that mean my proof is wrong? No. If I say that x = 1 and later say that x = 1/1, does that mean my proof is wrong? No.
If I say that x is equal to something and later say that it is equal to something else, it simply means that these two things are equal. Considering that 0.9... is in fact equal to 1, it is perfectly valid to do this.
Just because you write the number differently doesn't mean it can't be the same number. There are many ways to denote the same number using mathematical notation.
_________________________________________________________________________
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkOtaris |
|
|
"Mathematics is the notation."
Ok, you clearly didn't understand anything. Mathematics isn't the same thing as mathematical notation, just like language isn't the same thing as what it is used to represent.
There are many languages, yet they can all be used to represent the same things, and yet all those languages are not identical. This proves that those languages are not the same thing as what they are used to represent (which should be obvious anyway).
If you say that mathematics is the same thing as mathematical notation, then we're not talking about the same thing when we're talking about mathematics, so assume that whenever I say "mathematics", I actually mean "what is represented by mathematical notation".
_________________________________________________________________________
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkOtaris |
|
|
'It only works because he subtracts x from one side and 0.9... from the other. x is being used as a finite value, while 0.9... is not.'
You are wrong.
x = 0.9...
x is a recurring number.
0.9... is a recurring number
x IS EQUAL TO 0.9...
Proof in algebra in undeniable until you start messing with values that tend towards infinity.
x = 0.9...
10x = 9.9...
9x = 9
x = 1 |
|
|
Well, if you add up all the nines to be sum of infinite series, the sum equals one.
The Prime Jester of Scripters has spoken. |
|
SharksieJoin Date: 2009-10-10
Post Count: 30576 |
So what I'm getting is that the basic argument is the following
x = 0.999...
10x = 9.999...
10x - x = 9.999... - 0.999...
9x = 9
x = 1
Right?
This formula was obviously written with the intention of creating a bandwagon among people who don't math. Believing it is incredibly foolish. First off, it's foolish to assume that regular math applies to irrational numbers. Take 0.333... for example.
x = 0.333
10x = 3.333
10x - x = 3.333 - 0.333
9x = 3
x = 3
When we put it into this perspective, we can clearly see that our math is wrong somewhere in the equation. Like I said before, you can't do regular math (more specifically multiplication) on irrational numbers. Say we have
x = 5.65
Now if we multiply that by 10
x = 56.5
See what happened? The numbers moved up. Now say that we have
x = 0.555...
How do we multiply this by 10? We can't move the numbers up because there is no end to the number. Yet, stupid and arrogant people who have no idea how to math still claim that you can somehow add a number to it.
The next time someone tells you that 0.999 = 1, tell them to explain the math on paper. They will either admit their faults or spend the rest of their life trying to find the last number of 0.999... so they can move it up. |
|
SharksieJoin Date: 2009-10-10
Post Count: 30576 |
Adding to the post I just made with an after-thought.
IF 0.999 did somehow have an end (let's call this number 0.999...999), we still wouldn't get 0.999...999 = 1.
x = 0.999...999
10x = 9.999...990
10x - x = 9.999...990 - 0.999...999
9x = 8.000...001 |
|
EverestyJoin Date: 2009-10-08
Post Count: 6156 |
Well, when you say .999... * 10, it's then 9.999...0
But the zero is so far down, you think it doesn't exist, but it still does, and you cant igore it. So you're only multiplying x by ten, not .999.. but instead adding 9.000...9
So Yeah.
_________________________________________________________________________
I possess 16K+ ROBUX and 968 tickets. |
|
|
'you get an inequality.'
No, _YOU_ get an inequality and you are wrong.
'First off, it's foolish to assume that regular math applies to irrational numbers'
True, but we are dealing with recurring numbers, not irrational ones. Good day. |
|
SharksieJoin Date: 2009-10-10
Post Count: 30576 |
My bad. I seem to have underthought that math.
9x = 8.999...991 |
|
|
Can we please stop the idea of having a digit at the end of a recurring number?
recurring means to go on infinitely. There is no end.
0.0...1 = 0 because that sneaky 1 doesn't exist. |
|
8SunTzu8Join Date: 2011-09-30
Post Count: 8199 |
"study of relationships using numbers: the study of the relationships among numbers, shapes, and quantities. It uses signs, symbols, and proofs and includes arithmetic, algebra, calculus, geometry, and trigonometry."
That's what mathematics is. It uses the notation. Such as English using its symbols, Math has its own symbols.
Bot hare languages, both are inventions. Mathematics is a field of study. It is not something that is inherent.
Philosopher, Creator, Clanner, Wiki Writer, and Student |
|
SharksieJoin Date: 2009-10-10
Post Count: 30576 |
"Can we please stop the idea of having a digit at the end of a recurring number?
recurring means to go on infinitely. There is no end."
That was the entire theme of my proof. |
|
sdfgwTop 50 PosterJoin Date: 2009-01-08
Post Count: 41681 |
arceus
what you chatting
"9x = 3
x = 3" |
|
|
"First off, it's foolish to assume that regular math applies to irrational numbers."
Wait, what? Since when is 0.333... an irrational number?
_________________________________________________________________________
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkOtaris |
|
|
"People will dismiss unsolved problems, but argue about certainties indefinitely." — awsumpwner27
The Prime Jester of Scripters has spoken. |
|
SharksieJoin Date: 2009-10-10
Post Count: 30576 |
@Colorful
"In mathematics, an irrational number is any real number that cannot be expressed as a ratio a/b, where a and b are integers and b is non-zero." -Wikipedia
So, a number with no end is irrational.
@sdfgw
It's been a long day. |
|
EverestyJoin Date: 2009-10-08
Post Count: 6156 |
I agree and disagree with alot of stuff on the idea.
I think it both, equals and does not equal one. PERSONAL OPINIONS FTW.
_________________________________________________________________________
I possess 16K+ ROBUX and 968 tickets. |
|
|
arceus
0.333... can be expressed as 1/3
that's a ratio
The Prime Jester of Scripters has spoken. |
|
|
@ArceusInator
Did your account get stolen by someone or something? You don't act like this normally. This is not you. The real ArceusInator is smarter than that!
1waffle1, NVI, where are you both? We need you here!
_________________________________________________________________________
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkOtaris |
|
sdfgwTop 50 PosterJoin Date: 2009-01-08
Post Count: 41681 |
"Did your account get stolen by someone or something? You don't act like this normally. This is not you. The real ArceusInator is smarter than that!"
^ |
|