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If a perfect team of defenders can hold it against a perfect team of raiders, it is defender sided
If a perfect team of raiders can win against a perfect team of defenders, it is raider sided and probably broken unless it is a warzone base
If a bad team of defenders can win against a perfect team of raiders, it is unfair
If a bad team of raiders can win against a team of perfect raiders, your base is broken
Raids will always be about exploiting the defenses in some way to spawntrap the defenders and/or get enough map control to secure a win. If these things can not be accomplished by the attackers, it is an unfair base because it does not allow a more skilled team to get victory.
For a relevant example, the V O I D base is fine because the only real obstacle is the V O I D mid spawn. If you spawn trap them, it's a free win. Once you wipe them out, you have absolute full map control except their spawnzone. |
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i gave raiders machine guns and gave my group rifles
never get called unfair :^) |
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RaethyrJoin Date: 2008-03-08
Post Count: 20527 |
[ Content Deleted ] |
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FluxoidJoin Date: 2012-03-21
Post Count: 19049 |
perfect vs perfect cancels each other out |
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lol void base is fine hahahaha |
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ValhalasJoin Date: 2011-09-24
Post Count: 68654 |
Yeah V O I D's base is fine for the most part. |
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"How to objectively determine if a base is unfair"
Skip the tl;dr, all you need to know is:
"Math".
Are the two side's spawns mathematically equal distance from the capturable/objective point.
& does 1 side have more effect weapons or vehicles/or more weapons or vehicles than your side has in general.
That's all you need to know.
I'm known for typing massive tl;dr's all the time, but you absolutely don't need one for this, you only need to know those 2 things. |
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Are the two side's spawns mathematically equal distance from the capturable/objective point & or is there anything obstructing your or their walking distance to it.*
& does 1 side have more effective weapons or vehicles/or more weapons or vehicles than your side has in general.* |
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AllusiaJoin Date: 2014-07-27
Post Count: 2324 |
8c has incredibly stupid spawning
we have to push the bomb through the void spawn and every time we get near their spawn all of them will be aiming for the bomb
I'm the second coming of Jesus |
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AllusiaJoin Date: 2014-07-27
Post Count: 2324 |
and i used to be a general when 8c was first put into use
I'm the second coming of Jesus |
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"perfect vs perfect cancels each other out"
Perfect doesn't mean you just aimbot and kill everyone immediately. It means there are no flaws in their play. If defenders open gates, hold their spots optimally, etc. and raiders trade kills, communicate, etc. I consider it a perfect offense or defense. |
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"we have to push the bomb through the void spawn and every time we get near their spawn all of them will be aiming for the bomb"
Yep. This is why regardless of skill or anything else, mathematical distance between your spawn and the objective point and the enemy's spawn and the objective point determines who has the upper hand and who is going to win.
If theirs is somehow closer, simply mathematically more times they can theorhetically spawn, walk to the objective point shoot at you die, and walk back.
Less distance=more chances you get to eliminate your foe.
If you're the seiging enemy and your walking distance is say twice that of an enemy's,
well even if it's a 10v10,
it's actually more like 20v10.
Because it takes you 2 times longer to walk to objective point than the enemy does.
By the time 5 of your 10 reach it, there's already 10 waiting to murder them all because
their walking distance/time is cut in half, this in effect allowing their troop dilvery to that location to happen twice as fast as yours can.
10v5, well odds are bad there. Those 5 are probably going to all get totally murdered.
Next 5 come? murdered too.
Literally endless cycle of getting defeated only because of mathematical walking distance unless a fluke happens and the enemy doesn't distribute all it's men to that point thus giving you a numerical advantage or if they all somehow mess up really badly and all die thus allowing you the time near the objective point alone and free whilst their forces have to re approach you all over again giving you the time of their walking distance.
Biggest battle/war determiners right here:
1. Walking distance of your enemy/& your force's spawn compared to objective point.
2. If there are any obstructions either between you or them between the spawns & objective.
3. If enemy has more effective weaponry or vehicles, or simply in general more choices of weapons of vehicles than you have.
You guys literally all think this is "omg some guy typing a big amssive tldr boring thing on roblox where it doesnt belong something about teachers math i hate school omg lets crack some jokes or pass notes in class because this sucks -turn off brain now-
But if you really realize that this determines 90% of actual wars & gameplay on roblox, & that your school teacher's teachers you math & everything the wrong way boringly, and the wrong way to apply it,
it gives you a massive advantage fighting. Absolutely massive. |
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Ran502Join Date: 2012-01-29
Post Count: 1720 |
The only problem is assembling a perfect team, because there is no "perfect team". |
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"The only problem is assembling a perfect team, because there is no "perfect team"."
No that's not the problem at all.
That's the whole point of the system I described above.
It's absolutely 100% made to find out who is and is not perfect.
Who has the skill, who does not.
Who is actually worthy of these stupid two-bit sfer top 10 lists and who is not.
There is no absolutely perfect team.
Th leadership and the inherent born-with-genetically abilities given to any various person would determine who wins and who does not. |
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Ran502Join Date: 2012-01-29
Post Count: 1720 |
That's basically what I was saying cons. |
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Cept you didn't say it like I did at all, & you brought up a perfect team which is negated because you don't need one with this system. |
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thank you constructor
for actually explaining that |
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Your system points out whether a fort is unfair or not. It's generally accepted that 90% of them are unfair, but it doesn't really determine whether something is completely unraidable in difficulty or not. V O I D's base for example gives a spawn distance advantage, but it's not very defensible. It's easy to spawncamp V O I D, which has been a motif in all of their bases for at least 4 years. |
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"but it doesn't really determine whether something is completely unraidable in difficulty or not."
Actually it does.
Difficulty would be defined by deviation.
If everybody was allowed to sprint, or have speed boosts, or or extra height in their jumps or anything like that, then it would.
What is difficult for 1 person, may be easy for another.
For instance somebody who is never naturally physically active or even athletic even if he wasn't fat(But is), who is fat doing hurdles or a 100 meter dash,
compared to an Olympic athelete who not only is naturally athletic wants to go outside & execerise, but is also born genetically superior in terms of activities like this, doing hurdles of 100 meter dash, the fat person would absolutely loose.
Not because he tried less harder than the Olympian, but because he was simply born totally less inclined to perform activities as well as this Olypian could in that specific instance.
That would be sheer difficulty, physically inherently not being able to do something no matetr what.
This absolutely does not apply on roblox.
All you have to do is use your fingers to click and press various series of buttons on your keyboard.
In most places unless they give you these specific character powerups somehow (Or if you cheat/exploit),
no matter how hard you will it, you cannot, will your character walk more/faster than the default speed it is set to on roblox. No sprint faster than any given default speed it's set to on roblox, nor jump higher than any given height you can jump on roblox.
You are absolutely 100% fixed in this aspect.
So that being said.
Lets say your attacking team has to walk directly 50 studs to get to an objective to do whatever to capture it and the enemy has to walk 25.
If you are both walking & or sprinting (Doesn't matter which) towards the objective in an even 10vs10 at the exact same speed,
the home field enemy has the advantage because right as your 10 are halfway to the objective point, they are already there & digging in & getting fortified and placing their troops in specific locations to get the advantage over you.
Because they have the advantage of ambush, being ready for you the effectivness of their combat readiness versus yours leaves you at a disadvantage, which in any mathematical odds will leave them with at least 1 more fighter (At minimum, which is very very good odds at any rate to begin with) in the 10v10 than you have. Doesn't matter specifically what number it is but for this demonstration lets say home field has 6 you have 5.
Well 5v6 if push comes to shove & we say 5 cancels out 5, home field would be left by default with 1 left, 1 more than you have (Which again are very high odds for you, they might usually even have like 2-3 maybe 4 more because of this, anyways).
So by this point all 10 of your guys are dead, they are probably 25% out of the 50 studs they have to walk to the spawn because they respawned say 15 seconds ago where as the 9 on the home field who just got killed by your troops have to walk 100% of the 25 studs to the objective point which is 25 studs less than your guys have to walk,
this doesn't include the guys who died exactly in that instant which have to walk a full 50 studs, so the men who died first could be anywhere from 5 guys to 7 guys, then 5-7 guys get to the objective and because they didn't get there first there's 10 full guys waiting for them that then easily kill them, then the remaining 3-5 guys behind them who spawned walk up & it's even easier because its evenless than 5-7 guys & they egt killed too maybe the enemy only takes 1 casualty or2 but even then those 2 get back before enemy can send either wave back anyways.
AGAIN THUS letting them have a homefield advantage to get dug in and ambush your forces yet again time after time in a long cycle where it's effectively anywhere from 5-7, or 3-5 versus 10 every time.
And you can't change any of this because in literally every game basic walk speed or sprint or jump height is absolutely fixed to the same speed for everybody equally.
So on the books, it might be a 10v10 with the exact same weapons and all fair & nice & considerate on the outside,
but the walking distance absolutely screws you in the back and totally favors the side with the shorter walking distance every single time.
Since this is merely fixed walking/sprint/jump speeds, and distance of studs/surface area covered purely;
What makes it even worse is if you have things in your way obstructing you from getting to your objective, on top of extra walking distance.
Like barricades, or sphere meshes, or rocks you either have to climb, walk or scramble over which in effect also add to the distance walked too as that is surface area as well.
Note Vak's 2nd smo from last year.
Raider to vak walking distance to objective, vak's is almost half the distance in takes for raiders to reach an objective on a perfect day.
But whats even worse, is as a raid you have to go DEAD THROUGH a series of like 5-6 barricades that directly block your path to get to the objective assuming gate is closed (Which is almost always is) as if that is not bad enough the vak's spawn directly behind the barricades as well, (Also you come at them at almost entirely open ground with no cover to advance to, they have absolute total cover over everything but the 2 arms being held up for their guns) so remember that 5-7 vs 10 comparison I told you about before?
You walk about 45% distance to objective, vak walks 0% absolutely nothing, and kills you as you come. You're talking more like 2v10 or 1v10 every respawn instance there.
Vak has absolutely the worst & most unfair spawn to objective & obstruction ratios out of any group on this entire game hands down.
If you now factor in more effective weapon or vehicle rates, assuming there's obstruction & a longer walking distance for non home field raiders, it absolutely shreds your forces so bad you'd be lucky to even get an equal 10v3 or 10v1 in any given spawn rate on those maps because in edition to all the mathematically unfair spawn times & matchups their weapons eliminate your soldiers faster than you do theirs. (Most systems are absolutely stilted to home field advantage like this too, either just giving home field better equipment for free to start with, or the sneaky wij cheater way by having some kind of a credit based purchasable loadout system which favors them because home field patrols more than raiders raid, thus putting any given additional power ups in the hands of the home field to begin with anyways. Plus with data persistence it's not like any overpowered noob tube or whatever a person can get goes away after they leave, it sticks. So it's just blatant insidious cheating as if you were to just give them OP stuff straight up anyways.)
So no, there really isn't any sort of true defined "difficulty" in any map on this game at all really, it's all totally fixed for the most part.
"V O I D's base for example gives a spawn distance advantage, but it's not very defensible."
If this could be verified mathematically somehow that these two things do in fact cancel each other out than yes that would be fair in that aspect. Gg. |
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