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I had to move the forum location to game design because of reasons. We will now be discussing it on this forum. Again, we shall review:
Sol Invictus: Holy empire faction. Followers of the Aether ascended.
Vulture's Voice: Neutralistic, conservative, rebellious faction. Said to work with Nature ascended or some kinds of Earth Gods, but not heavily involved in such matters.
The Great Consulate: Strange collective-minded faction. Followers of the Binary ascended.
Myriad of Abaddon: Evil faction. Followers of the Nether ascended. |
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xenoman90Join Date: 2011-07-25
Post Count: 1949 |
Now that you have the right place, let's start.
1. Explain the groups more thoroughly. Give me the background lore of them, more hierarchy, etc.
2. How will the group system work? What will the ranks be? Will it be the council idea I've spoken about? Who will be in-charge of the groups? |
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Scout07Join Date: 2011-02-05
Post Count: 34 |
IMO Each of these groups should have a central plan for a government they wish to establish. Here's what I would say.
Sol Invictus: Either a Grandmaster as a religious ruler (aKa more of a monastic order like the Teutonic/Livonian Orders) or a King/Emperor as a Monarchical ruler. If we wanted to work in Xeno's council idea for this, it could work easily as we could just make it a Papal See-esque rule where we have 7 'Cardinals' and 1 'Pope'. We could figure out names for positions like that later.
Vulture's Voice: I can see this as a group trying to set up a Republic. In Medieval Republics, you had a group of Patricians as a council of sorts and the Doge (not kidding, this was the name for the leaders of Venice, Genoa, and others). As I said before, these names can be changed to fit with the rebellion feel.
The Great Consulate: This name came into my head out of nowhere, and apparently it was historical so, here's how it went. There were 3 Consuls who served as co-rulers with lower council-men under them. I can see this working as trying to set up an Oligarchy.
Myriad of Abaddon: This is the odd man out, and this depends on where you would want to head with the faction. They could be completely anarchical. Alternatively they could be wanting extreme order, an autocracy, if you will, where they had one extremely strong evil or evil-ish ruler with extreme authority over everyone. As for set up of a council, just do it based on Sol Invictus just with much stronger ties to authority, AKA, dictatorship.
So in short:
Sol Invictus: Monastic or Monarchic Rule
Vulture's Voice: Republic Rule
The Great Consulate: Oligarchic Rule
Myriad of Abaddon: Anarchy or Autocracy (Dictatorship)
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Scout07Join Date: 2011-02-05
Post Count: 34 |
(Disclaimer: All numbers in this can be altered.) |
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Good ideas Scout. Yes, that sounds like good ideas indeed. Worth nothing, however, that old guild members will hold seats in the high council. Aside from the old-guild councils, these sound like fine ideas. To answer for the Myriad, probably anarchy, though typically a ruler just emerges out of nowhere and everyone follows him due to fear. At this point, the leadership would probably have some order, but compared to the other factions, there will be much more chaos and fear within the system. |
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Scout07Join Date: 2011-02-05
Post Count: 34 |
Relating directly to the council you mentioned. All of the groups, as I said, should have a baseline rulership system. Old-guild members will hold seats in high council of course. However, I suggest we try to figure out how the groups should be organized to fit these members while taking into account the individual faction personalities and goals. As I have stated previously, my goal in this whole venture is to try to keep it historical to a point because this is the Middle Ages we are talking about. I'd very much want to be involved in organizing to ensure some factual accuracy and the best place to start is giving out the main title, basically King or something, but not King. No, these factions will have rulers where they will not always be Kings or Doges or King-Demon-Knight of the 7th Legion within the game. The leaders must be given general names to express their power only within the faction. Here are my baseline ideas for the highest position of power names.
Sol Invictus: Grandmaster or High Priest or Patriarch (This group will be the highest influenced by religion so it is only fitting that the faction leader will have a religious name)
Vulture's Voice: High Patrician (To be honest, this is kind of hard to come up with since this is the rebel group, so if any of you can come up with names that'd be great.)
The Great Consulate: First, Second, and Third Consuls (All share the same power, and would serve as leaders for the whole. Now, this partially goes against one of my points, but I think it is fine as this sets up an Oligarchic rule)
Myriad of Abaddon: Elder of Souls, Elder of Blood, Elder of Shadows (Overall these would have less power with an anarchic rule, but would serve as major advisors to the Myriad.) |
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I can see you're very good with details, scout. Though this might be my brainchild, I'll make sure you get heavy credit in the end. |
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I will say one thing, though. We need to understand that the KL world exists in an entirely different universe. We can make clever referencing to history, and I like that, but we can't allow it to be a regulating factor. |
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I find it an issue that your making leadership roles geared towards older/favoured players in your eyes, while this form of action would make perfect sense in a standard group, this group is designed to gather RPers for bigger scales and as such has to allow for RP to influence any leadership more than simply "I like this guy, he can be a noble."
A major part of large scale RP leaderships is political RP, being able to spin more webs of deceit (or if your kind, unravel the enemies) than everyone else and climb to the top of the hierachy, a goal that does take people and time, something that allows for players to get involved in it and the effects really do mean something. E.G "Senator Rallen has been planning for weeks on making Senator Ta'lain, the main opposition to his plan to invade the westlands appear corrupt and ineffective to the court." This RP idea alone would allow both sides chances to try and counter each other and even drag more players in to act as hired guards or if things get interesting, assassins.
Also if I can throw my 2 cents in with the leadership of the "Evil Group" it could always simply be the strongest/smartest among them reigns as what the insane individual calls (Insert whatever title the player decided is the leader title now e.g King, Emperor, Warmaster) but in reality that leadership is more or less just a small trophy that shows no one really has the gall or force to get rid of him, the people that follow this individual would likely be doing so out of sheer fear, greed or being forced.
While I'm throwing some ideas out, I'll mention the ranks. I personally don't feel that adding ranks for every specific "Role" in a generic sense will end well with players, no one wants to have their character, no matter who they are seem "degraded" at the prospect of being called "Soldier" or "Private", I can understand some important roles being placed on the group ranks because everyone in that faction should know who the particularly powerful people are.
As such I do agree with powerful ranks being known though the faction as such being placed as a offical rank on the group wall. However I think we need to discuss how to handle lesser ranks, while players will likely attack in mass scales if they count themselves as warriors, some of them might just be religious zealots or chained slaves forced to attack, those players don't want to be ranked as a real soldier in the group. This means to appease everyone, I throw out the idea that we allow all "lesser" ranks to be more or less grouped together in 1-2 colossal ranks so that the people within that rank has the reign to play a character of a particular role in the faction when they wish too.
(Apologises for the writing, I just felt like getting some thoughts thrown out before we become complacent.) |
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Though a political system might be difficult, you're just about right if I'm reading everything correctly. Yes, the Myriad would probably work mostly like that. Yes, we shouldn't have too specific of ranks within the factions. |
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I should mention as a default rule. Within my brainchild design-layout concept, whatever faction you feel most suiting for your playstyle or ideals, you have more of a say on what that faction should turn out as. For example, I mostly have ideas for the Consulate for when we get into some detail, seeing that it's both partially my creation, and that I'd side with them. |
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xenoman90Join Date: 2011-07-25
Post Count: 1949 |
Hey so....
Who is the person with the money? |
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xenoman90Join Date: 2011-07-25
Post Count: 1949 |
Anyway....
Changes have been made.
The name for Vulture's Voice is now Raven Society instead. |
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wait you can build to it? |
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xenoman90Join Date: 2011-07-25
Post Count: 1949 |
We're proposing, in the future, to create actual meaning groups within Kingdom Life.
There's no rule against it, so I would say so. If enough people agree, of course. |
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Just to point out for how we can prevent the 1 for all based ranking for the other factions (No one wants to deal with a faction where the high ranks are chosen by only by kissing the faction heads ### all day.) so it IS possible to allow for ranks that do have a larger effect on the faction that players can work for. To put some ideas for how that can work for each faction.
Sol Invictus - Its a holy regime so that means priests, paladins and religious zealots crawling all over the place. I can easily see players being able to play them at the standard rank. However, it is possible to allow for more rp experiences to allow some of the more scheming or powerful players to become a known rank (High Priest, High Protector or Cult Leader)
This allows them the chance to RP bickering/discussing how they wish to do something in an interesting and hopefully funny manner. E.G High Protector Aurious walked to the window of his quarters, his armor clinking loudly on the stone floor. As he glances downwards at the courtyard he dropped his jaw in amazement. Cult Leader Zin'til must of grown tired of waiting and charged the Consulate tower too early, taking with him 1/3 of the assault collaborations troops with him. Aurious turned back to his desk to see the High Priest Lanius already entering, already having seen the cultist charge "To be fair, Aurious, Its a miracle they had the patience to wait that long."
Vultures Voice - From what I'm reading there is no exact leader so I don't really need to argue for this one, if a leader was chosen. Well you kinda just ruined their whole political ideals didn't you?
The Great Consulate - From what I'm reading their for all intents and purposes scholars and most likely the hired mercenaries of those scholars. I assume there is a leader for this one but there are always chances for higher ranks in this one, what could be creative for this faction in particuluar is that "Offically" high ranks could actually be tinier while actually NAMED characters can be placed on the group ranks, stating that a particular scholar is well known in the faction for his exploits.
E.G Fra'vil walked quietly through the library, several floating orbs trailing behind her, waiting for a request. As she encountered others they nodded in respect to her, an irony, considering some of these men would in any other land count as her superiors. Fra'vil shrugged off the notion and continued onwards, a High Magus requested to discuss opinions on the next attack force, something that has become far too frequent since she assisted at the battle of Mount Wolfsbane.
Myriad of Abaddon - This faction appears to be more or less in discord, so it allows for the chance for powerful players (Powerful after long periods of time of course) to leesh others to his will and gather amass a horde, allowing them to become a minor warlord in the faction, whether they support the Warmaster on the other hand, is up to the leader. This allows for some interesting RP moments for everyone to amass power and in this faction, that greed is very useful and matchs what should be the people.
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xenoman90Join Date: 2011-07-25
Post Count: 1949 |
I would suggest you call the rebel group Raven Society, as previously discussed. Anyway, what you've said sounds like a great idea.
SL would consist of the typical paladins, acolytes, high priest, and so on.
RS. I'm having a hard time trying to grasp it. Is it just a group of lay-abouts, or is there some sort of heroic figurehead? I dunno, something like Ulfric and the Stormcloak rebellion?
TGC. Magical consuls and that stuff. Also, would there be some sort of educational building/s that will play part of the ranking system?
And my favorite so far, MoA. It always makes me happy when I see a legion of demonic creatures destroying all in their path. |
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Just remember that the Consulate faction isn't scrolls and wizards. They want to give people more of an 'experience' than they want to simply give them things to read. Of course, those with intelligence like high wizards are more likely to hold high positions. Worth noting also, Consulate seems to function in some kind of religious manner, though their methods, rather than being theistic, appear to be what I would call "Exotheistic". For reference, partially imagine the Consulate like the Illuminati. Both the original and the modern-day conspiracy idea of it.
As for Raven Society, I imagine their leaders would be a balanced between the most trusted and the most heroic of leaders. The Stormcloak Rebellion does make a decent example. |
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Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realize that the Consulate would have the same vibe as the Illuminati. Yea, that might be a decent way to describe this faction. |
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VhyxJoin Date: 2010-10-16
Post Count: 11 |
Damn, you really hit the spot this time. |
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polaaakJoin Date: 2010-03-03
Post Count: 36 |
I'd also like to know, who exactly these factions gather? Like, merchants, townfolk, thieves, etc. |
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xenoman90Join Date: 2011-07-25
Post Count: 1949 |
Sol Invictus: Religious and holy priests/priestesses, paladins. Maybe even angels of some sorts.
Raven Society: Mercenaries, Guilds, normally the common rabble of people who aren't dictated in harsh rule.
The Great Consulate: Mages, Wizards, Alchemists. Anything that requires intellect.
Myraid of Abaddon: Demons, terrifying monsters, evil cultists, stuff like that. |
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In response to xeno: Again, remember that the Consulate isn't about intellect, despite that being something they tend to pride themselves with. It is true, however, that seekers of mysteries to uncover and alternate challenges to face will be attracted to them. The Consulate has religious makeup somewhat similar to the Invictus, but their ways are tailored to disassembling the natural world rather than to some kind of aether being. This is why I describe them as Exotheistic. |
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xenoman90Join Date: 2011-07-25
Post Count: 1949 |
So, are you saying that they're not associated with magic or alchemy.
At all?
There has to be a group associated with magical arts. |
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No. That's stupid. Magic is something that ALL factions tend to use. Each faction just tends to treat and use it in different ways. Some use it more than others. Indeed, it is true that the Consulate likes to meddle with a lot of arcane and binary magic, but it's also true that the Invictus uses mostly light-related forms. Also true is that the Society tends to use nature magic more often, and equally true that the Myriad likes to use plenty of shadow and fire. |
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