MakaoiJoin Date: 2014-07-08
Post Count: 30 |
I know, I know.. "Oh God, another thread about copied clothing! When will it ever stop." I completely understand, and I'm tired of complaining too. After countless E-mails to ROBLOX about this issue, the only feedback I have received, is to share my "suggestion" in the forums. As a designer, I know the heartbreak I feel when the hours, and by HOURS I mean HOURS, of work is stolen. You may think I'm being dramatic, but it is what happens hundreds of times a day. If you take a look at the front page, I guarantee 99% of the clothing is copied and highly priced. THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS. Designers invest precious time into these clothing items, just to have them taken. As a college student, I have learned that even paraphrasing a sentence without a citation is plagiarism and you will more than likely be kicked out of college for it.
Paraphrasing (redesigning) = plagiarism
Copying = plagiarism
Plagiarism - the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.
I cannot think of a better definition of what clothing copying is. It is STEALING. Some may see it as quick robux, or free clothing but it really affects the original creator when it comes to DevExing, or wanting to enjoy profit from THEIR work. Some gave devs such as Cindering, and Loleris earn a lot of money for their games. Their games have a copy-lock option that prevents them from the unfortunate copying scheme. This is what we should apply to clothing. We should be able to choose whether or not someone other than the original user can view the template. Yes, I understand that people may use the template to improve their designs, but in most cases, they are stolen and re-uploaded. If you're like me, and your account was banned and you want to reupload clothing, you should be able to uncopylock clothing so that the template is accessible.
Now, if you think "this has already been brought forth as a suggestion", I agree, but this is the first step we must take in preventing copying.
The next thing we should do to fix the overwhelming amount of already copied clothing, is to change the template size. "Why would you do that? uh?" Well, for one, the quality of our clothing is REALLY LOW. It's so low in fact, that the lines from our templates blur off onto the clothing so that when it is folded up onto the character and appears to have lines. This is highly annoying, and makes our clothing look dirty and unprofessional. By up-sizing the template size, it would give designers a whole new canvas for designing, and if ROBLOX is all about, "POWERING IMAGINATION", imagine the ability to create really NICE clothing for users. This would also eliminate the re-uploading of templates that users may already have saved to their computer.
Now for my final suggestion, if you haven't noticed, clothing that is copied is almost INSTANTLY approved because the template already exists on the site. Why can't we use this to prevent reuploading? I have received warning for my templates before, so even if someone were to put a new template over it, ROBLOX should be able to prevent the re-uploading of a clothing item. I think ROBLOX should develop 2 systems. The first system should be a moderation system to prevent the uploading of inappropriate items, and the second to prevent clothing copying. (Look, I just created jobs. Maybe I should run for president!) I think ROBLOX should moderate the regions on the template where the clothing is placed, and use the system they have that automatically approves existing templates to prevent re-uploading. If a user is caught re-uploading a item, they should receive a warning and the outfit should be labeled as "Content Deleted". (if roblox up-sizes the template size, 585x559 templates would no long be acceptable)
I know it would be absolutely ridiculous to completely wiped the catalog clean, but you should really develop a system that deletes reuploaded clothes. It's not that hard to find the original. Yes, I know there are MILLIONS of assets on the site, but you have the technology.
Solutions:
1. Copying-locking templates - will prevent assetdownloading and reuploading
2. Template size - will up-size quality and make downloaded templates unacceptable
3. 2 Moderation Systems - Will prevent new templates being placed over and uploading
Taking these steps will eliminate clothing copying. They compliment eachother, if you find a flaw, please reply!
Q: What if someone gives me permission to use a piece of their clothing!
A: Ask them to uncopylock, or use a secondary site to share.
ROBLOX, it seems that you are procrastinating the prevention of copying, or you're to far in to fix it now. As a designer, I understand. But please, to prevent the copying of FUTURE items, take these into consideration. Maybe you don't want us to devex, maybe you just don't care, the world may never know. We are tired of being directed to the forums. Please, instead of making ridiculous updates, please put a dent in this on-going problem. Atleast stop leaving us hanging. It's becoming frustrating, and we feel ignored.
If you're a designer that struggles with the same problem, or you agree, please support!
Any more questions? Please reply below, I want to find a solution!
- Morgan, 2015/2016 Designer |
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tl;dr
short story is: good idea
r+://183675951 |
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MakaoiJoin Date: 2014-07-08
Post Count: 30 |
Suggestion: Put it in the rules that copying is not allowed, and allow us to report!
- Morgan, 2015/2016 Designer |
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MakaoiJoin Date: 2014-07-08
Post Count: 30 |
@koolboat01 Yet you took the time to reply! Fascinating!
- Morgan, 2015/2016 Designer
- Morgan, 2015/2016 Designer |
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yes i did[1]
yes i did[2]
yes i did[3]
yes i did[4]
yes i did[5]
yes i did[6]
yes i did[7]
yes i did[8]
yes i did[9]
yes i did[10]
r+://183675951 |
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>has 5 posts
Follow me on Twitter for Monthly Giveaways! @OpticUniversse | Add 5k posts | R$2,654/R$10000 |
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#removetotalforumposts.#removetotalforumposts.#removetotalforumposts.#removetotalforumposts.#removetotalforumposts.
r+://183675951 |
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MakaoiJoin Date: 2014-07-08
Post Count: 30 |
@OpticUniversse was uploaded >5 minutes ago
- Morgan, 2015/2016 Designer |
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MakaoiJoin Date: 2014-07-08
Post Count: 30 |
It's late, I'm tired. Please stop replying unless you're serious about the topic.
- Morgan, 2015/2016 Designer |
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ObscurifyJoin Date: 2013-04-01
Post Count: 47 |
Serious support. I am tired of ROBLOX not listening to their community and frankly it is getting old. The largest culprit is NBC clothing makers or whatever. 90% of the clothing made in 2016 is probably their (stolen) clothing. They've even TOLD people how to do it. |
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MakaoiJoin Date: 2014-07-08
Post Count: 30 |
@Obscurify Thank you! It's getting ridiculous. Designers MATTER. They take 30% of fee's. If copiers want money, they can get creative and earn it themselves!
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SlydexiaJoin Date: 2010-08-10
Post Count: 98517 |
the only way to stop copied clothing would be to make the templates inaccessible
in other words you're outta luck |
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BorsyJoin Date: 2014-07-31
Post Count: 15111 |
the thing is posting on S&I does nothing
no moderator reads S&I
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Oh for the love of Satan, if you clothing designers can't be bothered to look at the other post that was here a while back I can't be bothered to type this all up agian. Here's a copy paste of why your ideas are never going to come to fruition:
Getting mighty sick of these people who have no idea how ROBLOX clothing works.
All clients need access to view the template. If not, they can't render your shirt in game. So if you make them impossible to view them, nobody but you will be able to see the shirts you make in game.
As for the debate above me about the -1 algorithm, no, -1 is not the algorithm used to find the shirt, your template is uploaded first, then a shirt is created. Because they are created so quickly, this USUALLY results in the template getting some ID and then the shirt itself getting that ID + 1. Usually. Sometimes, it doesn't.
In reality, your shirt object is just an XML file, I'll paste the interesting bit here from one I found off the front page of the catalog, edited to work with the forums:
[Item class="Shirt" referent="RBX0"]
[Properties]
[Content name="ShirtTemplate"]
[url]http://www.roblox.com/asset/?id=466262243[/url]
[/Content]
[string name="Name"]Shirt[/string]
[bool name="archivable"]true[/bool]
[/Properties]
[/Item]
So no, making it a "random ID" won't solve anything, you can just download this XML file and find the asset ID in there.
Clothes copying is here to stay, like it or not. You cannot stop it, and you cannot fight it. Go learn an actual skill like building/scripting if you want to make money, I'm not going to feel bad for you because you're not earning as much money as possible from copy-pasting textures you found on Google Images into a shirt template.
Also, regarding the famous "ROBLOX university" shirt that you people seem to be so damn proud of, let me shatter your reality.
This is the one we're talking about, yes?
https://www.roblox.com/catalog/176086705/ROBLOX-University-Tee-Shirt
Oh no, the template won't load! They must have totally found a way to stop clothing stealing and this totally isn't some easy trick that a ten year old could bypass with some actual thinking!
https://www.roblox.com/library/176086704/RBXM-RobloxUShirt
Except... no. Why don't you actually download the raw asset and look at it? Look what I found!
#######################################################################################################################################################################################[/Properties]
[/Item]
Ooh, a different ID? Why don't we reconstruct this link in a format easier to view?
https://www.roblox.com/library/176080681/iHateClothingDesigners
What do you know, they didn't stop clothes copying after all, they just hid the real template behind a second jump! Who could've seen THAT coming?
Right, that covers the basic points you all can't seem to get through your skulls, here's a few more tailored to this specific thread;
1. Upping the template size isn't happening. ROBLOX isn't going to break all previous shirts just because. Furthermore, yes, low-res looks crappy, but honestly if they won't even give us Anti-Aliasing because "da poor kids potatoputers can't handle it", what makes you think they're going to increase the texture resolution of something worn by almost every player in a game?
2. Your auto-moderation idea is bypassable simply by putting a single dot outside the shirt area of the template. What's that you say? Just require the outside to be unedited? What a brilliant idea, now all that's necessary is to change a single pixel to just a single shade slightly higher. It is unnoticable to the human eye but it will change the image's hash (how it can tell two images are exactly the same) drastically.
3. Boo hoo, you spent HOURS on a shirt and it got copied? The reason games enjoy such protection is because they take months, even years to make, yet they can STILL be copied with exploits. I think losing 8 months of work is a bit more tragic than "oh no I have to share the profits from these assets I have no right to use in the first place". Also, I call complete and utter lies on that. The shirt I'm wearing took my friend around 30 minutes to screw around with and me 10 minutes to paint an upside-down cross on the back. For the record, I've never had any experience with image editing in my life. I'm sure you "professionals" can do it faster. Anyway, yes, it has been copied by others. No, I don't care. It's a stupid internet picture.
4. I find it awfully funny how you all refer to clothes copying as "plagiarism" and go on and on about how it's so wrong. What if we applied your "college rules" to clothes design? Terminate any user using assets without permission. Oh would you look at that, the catalog front page is PLASTERED in Nike, Adidas, and OBEY logos. I also see you used Hogwarts in one of YOUR shirt designed. By your own rules, you're plagiarizing that idea for your own profit. I don't see credit to J.K. Rowling given anywhere on the shirt or in the description. You are guilty of plagiarism and should have your account punished, by your own logic. |
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BorsyJoin Date: 2014-07-31
Post Count: 15111 |
i really dont understand what people want ROBLOX to do when they're suggesting "stop clothing copying"
delete access to images and, in result, make the game unable to load any shirt, pants, texture from hats?
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@Borsy
This is why making computers easier to get into is a bad thing. Too many people thinking they know everything computer because they can make a simple shirt. Best they could do to secure clothing is to hide them all behind a second jump like the university shirt and implement some sort of user agent check to only allow the ROBLOX client to access it.
(Which I would then write a tool to bypass and release it just to spite these self-entitled brats.) |
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sonihiJoin Date: 2009-06-27
Post Count: 3655 |
The thing is, there will always be a way of copying, since you can use other peoples clothes in studio, so the templates have to be passed around somehow. |
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sonihiJoin Date: 2009-06-27
Post Count: 3655 |
Also omg the template resizing ommmgg it is going to stop the copiers!!!!!
No it wont't as a matter of fact anyone who knows how to use a resize tool can do it. And really checking for copied stuff with moderators is basicly way harder than you may think. Like: hmmm we got 10000 more templates to compare to originals and say if they are copies. Hmm this one got a lot of stuff drawn on the outline of the template, our bot didn't detect it is a copy and etc. |
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BorsyJoin Date: 2014-07-31
Post Count: 15111 |
changing the size will do absolutely nothing and just break old shirts. you can literally go to www.roblox.com/asset?id=image-id and download the full-size image
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MakaoiJoin Date: 2014-07-08
Post Count: 30 |
That's fine if you dont consider designing a skill. You still cannot dismiss the fact we spend HOURS on these designs. Also, theres a fine line between me "copy & pasting" and straight up stealing. "The resize tool" who would actually take the time to do that, plus it would ruin the resolution. "putting a simple dot" umm thats not how it works. If i upload a simple dot to an inappropriate image, it still gets banned. The system they can build should use a couple different regions of the template to identify whether or not the image is more that a percentage copied. For the shirt in studio mode, we can use asset templates much like the mesh templates to prevent stealing of the template ingame while still allowing a character to have clothing.
(Posted from mobile, sorry for mistakes) |
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MakaoiJoin Date: 2014-07-08
Post Count: 30 |
& if you're worried about new templates breaking clothing that already exists, I think toblox should add like an "HD" feature or some indication that this design was created using the new (xxx*xxx) template. There are ways to fix this problem. |
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MakaoiJoin Date: 2014-07-08
Post Count: 30 |
If you're not a designer, or have never seen your outfit get copied and recieve more sales than you did.. you wouldn't understand. This is a problem for people in the community. You may see designers as the overdramatic class of weeaboos, but really we are just robloxians trying to express our creativity. You cant tell me this isnt a problem. Roblox needs to do SOMETHING. ANYTHING. |
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BorsyJoin Date: 2014-07-31
Post Count: 15111 |
there is no way to "stop all clothing stealers" without hiring a ton of moderators, checking more than 20 million assets multiple times to see if parts of the clothing match (they can still put a dot and avoid the system from detecting because there's 1 pixel difference between 2 images) and making the website slow
the HD feature would do absolutely nothing
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Borsy always finds a way to piss the fkc out of everyone in the forums. just stop foruming you stupid 2014er.
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MakaoiJoin Date: 2014-07-08
Post Count: 30 |
i never said this would fix ALL copying clothing. It would atleast put a dent in the THOUSANDS of copied assets |
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