p3elJoin Date: 2011-06-10
Post Count: 18157 |
To start off this thread, FoA as a Hi-com approached VAK with this war, knowing that VAK would most likely resort to their normal and dishonorable tactics in an attempt to makeup for the evident lack of skill in VAK currently compared to The Federation Of Arcadia.
FoA declared war with Stronghold 2, on VAK knowing that their supreme general, BishoBlox made this thread https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=186635013 stating the following.
“SMO in its current state can be considered the 'ultimate challenge' of a raiding team. If you want to test your team's skill, SMO is one of the best places for it. That includes teamwork, communication, combat skill, so on and so forth.”----You’re acknowledging the difficulty of your base, this alone should nullify any previous point you have in the following argument, you’ve gone back on your word in an attempt to gain an advantage in this war.
15 v 15 is not standard for most bases, and it wouldn't work for all bases. SMO works with 15 v 15 for a number of reasons, from the spawns to the equal guns. SMO is not supposed to be a completely even fort, there are small defensive advantages in place for our team - this is normal for any base, but since every base is different, the 'defender advantages' you award your team are subjective. Some bases might allow a reasonable home advantage, which I believe SMO does.----You as your acting clans 2ic, acknowledge once again, the difficulty of your base, you acknowledge not every base is fit for a 15v15 (even numbers) You also acknowledge every base is subjective to a defender advantage, so are you going back on your word, by trying to BUFF defender advantages at a base you admitted to, already having said defender advantages, and trying to remove your enemies “subjective” defender advantages? (Keep in mind WE offered 15v15 smo, and FOR them to keep it the way it was, even a 15v15 Kaznan)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgyW-kAhYGw is said video, you can not only see the pure stupidity leaking from ttom’s character, but the stubbornness from all VAK involved in that negotiation, 15:08 “SMO is a fair base, stronghold 2 needs to be made as fair as smo” But its contradicting what you guys said leading up to us declaring war…..? “We won’t be using this for war” “We won’t be using this for war” “We won’t be using this for war” “We won’t be using this for war” https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=186635013 <<< It’s stated right there, in that very thread again.
The entire VAK Hi-com, specifically ttom would rather dodge the whole day for three weeks, knowing that Shadownize and Reversonal were working or busy for WEEKS, and that Bballer and I were in charge of negotiations, and would STILL not talk to us, at all, but rather wait till midnight to ask shadow “two questions” then wait till tomorrow, THIS is how negotiations went on, for three weeks.
https://www.roblox.com/games/458580737/Federation-of-Arcadia-Stronghold WAS the base Reversonal made A day LATER, immediately after BishoBlox and ttom approached us and said “You’re to either make stronghold 2 fair like SMO, or make a base just as fair” THE gameplay mechanics and the way stronghold 2 was built, WASN’T mean’t for the updates their asking, complete removal of mesh spam? That’s one of the most fun parts of any FoA base, seeing if someone’s in the bush’s. The point were getting at, if you’re going to remove every gameplay aspect from someone’s base, arguing it’s “unfair” then why did multiple clans get raid wins on it? SMO in ANY even numbered state is an unfair base, and if it WASN’T then the other 10 or so clans that raided, would’ve won there.
WE can name five KNOWN clans that have won at Stronghold II, V O I D, SC, SF, JC, RAT, even VAK won at the 8v12 stronghold? WHICH we ATTEMPTED to negotiate for, i.e compromises including “8v12 at stronghold versus a 15v12 or 15v10 at smo” went nowhere, WERE sorry for not recording every negotiation, we didn’t think we’d have too, but VAK once again has proved they are true to their normal actions, and are true to the past. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgyW-kAhYGw) We apologize for the spam of this single video, but it contains so much evidence per say, of what we exactly mean, that we can’t help it, espressos literally offers VAK multiple ways to continue the war before this whole fiasco, even at one point stating we’d use Kaznan.
Ttom wanted a stronghold with no cover around (all the bushes deleted) and a 3 entrance terminal which the only entrances are genhallway (A narrow door) And two skybridge entryways that are easily campable and the entrance to this skybridge is on the raider side of the term building.
This base might not seem bad, but it's completely raider sided because since there's no cover around the map, whoever gets onto the walls can place the other team in a spawntrap. This base doesn't test skill, and it leaves the defenders completely useless to whoever gets into position first. There is no possible way to retake this base because if everyone is situated onto that wall, and the only ways of entering the base is the raider side or Arcadian side, the base is easily camped. Ttom argues that he's, "Mirroring this base to SMO's fairness." When in reality he's making our base just like SMO. SMO has two entrances into the base and 3 entries into the terminal.
This logic doesn't work because the STA's/Medigun gameplay is different from the reaper-8 gameplay. I can't stress this enough to you idiot VAKtovians that SMO's gameplay cannot be compared to the gameplay of stronghold because STAs do less damage, and have less of a fire rate, and are less accurate than Reapers. Reapers do 17 damage and high fire rate.
SMO being the fort with less cover, a weaker gun, and a medigun makes rushing the base/contesting the base MUCH MUCH easier. Now that SH2 is mirrored to SMO with LESS COVER, TWO ENTRY WAYS INTO THE BASE, and a STRONGER GUN WITH NO COVER then it's IMPOSSIBLE to recap the base. This is what ttom wants from us, and it is BS.
Your hi-com is the most stupid in all of clan history, and this has been proved time and time again due to your tactics and thinking.
Also, if you want to see the base it's here: https://www.roblox.com/games/459094127/wasdwa
Not only does Ttom25rocks want this base to be used. But he wants the base to be equal spawns. Compare this base to SMO, and then tell me your Hi-com is respectable.
Ttom went from the VAK-FoA stronghold: https://www.roblox.com/games/458580737/Federation-of-Arcadia-Stronghold
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7nBLxg1NAw (Oh and don’t bother putting the video down, it’s already saved onto a few computers, we’ll just reupload them if need be.) Is a video that VAK recorded of them raiding and defending this base against FoA, it also presents communications in their teamspeak as well, you can see in this video, IT IS NOT the base that is the problem, but the blatant lack of skill coming from the Vaktovian officer in charge of said operation “Rally right” *dies* “Rally right again” The video is literal proof that they kept dying and didn’t change tactics, once but somehow began blaming the base, you can see the blatant lies in the teamspeak3 when Uncoverloser, in HIS WORSE lie, begins claims of FoA using “auto-clickers” 1:09:40 (In the video)
Here THERE’S timestamps to see the blatant stupidity on VAK’s own part. 1:12:28 “Uncoverloser: Were losing terribly.. Oh well”
Go to 1:13:20 Ttom25rocks says the war doesn't start until we it starts
1:12:10 "LORDMILTONIOUS DIDN'T DIE"
1:06:50
"Nick": They all call paul a scum bag
"Nick": because of the refresh
31:15 “Whoevers there, uhh uncover, Isodores there swording” all you hear is a sword, death, then a sigh followed by “oh my god”.
1:03:55 Gundeluxe just chases isodore around with a sword, expecting not to die.
1:07:30 Scelus just stands there and lets himself get sworded, but things like these are evidently blamed on “the base”
To this one just because he lost a practice raid at the VAK-FoA stronghold. He threw away 3 weeks worth of negotiations and has come to a point of no return demanding that garbage of a fort that doesn't deserve to have a name. Now tell me, whose demands are outrageous? I dare you to ask Danthein or whoever builds SMO and ask if the updates we demanded from SMO are to the level of idiocy that Ttom25rocks asks of stronghold.
That's all I have to say about your updates to SH2, making it equal to SMO. As I said before, we >CANNOTFORCED< Even numbers onto us.
You can ask anybody on the negotiation table, they wanted a 15v15 at SMO and we had to negotiate down for even numbers. You can not POSSIBLY use an even spawn stronghold for even numbers because of the reasons I stated above. THEREFORE, that's why we made a new base, and that base was proven fair time and time again. VAK refuse to acknowledge that the new stronghold was made to adapt to an even numbered scenario because they lost at the practice raid.
Also, about the part of Dragoons losing to VAK elites. Check the leaderboard for the Dragoon raid at SMO, and tell me where you see Paul, Shadownize, Reversonal, Me and the Arcadians who actually know how to raid SMO. On every test that espressos conducted we could've used Dragoons who are better at raiding/defending. So try again.
Anyways, that's all I have to say. It's getting pretty late and I don't want to spend the rest of the night arguing with Ttom25rocks "The brick Wall" Ciao.
A Stronghold without a roof and a garage.
First of all, let's analyze this. There're 4 entryways into the terminal as it is.
Gen-hall/Meeting room (Easily campable literally a single door that term defenders can see people rushing from a mile away, and is a very easy chokepoint to hold.
Roof entrance, (The roof itself is such an easy place to hold down) You have to cross the roof without any cover, and if you place a certain number of people there you can hold it flawlessly)
Garage, Similar to the meeting room, it's literally a very narrow entryway that you can place one skill gunfighter at in order to negate all threat because the defenders can pop-shot and destroy any rushes coming.
And Skywalk/Skybridge- The two entryways at the side of the term that's actually a threat.
I do not count this as a 5th entryway because both skywalks can be watched at easily. And the term room isn't even the biggest priority. But, VAK are trying to make the term room a priority.
All in all, there're 3 entryways that pose an actual threat. The roof entrance, and the two skybridge entrances. Those entrances are wide and obviously require more people to hold-but they can be completely nullified by a different style of defense, which is stacking roof. But, this isn't what VAK plan to do, they plan to OP the term area so they can just stack the terminal basically making it easier to raid because all they have to do is set up positions at the term area-any dumb clan can do that, right?
Now, by removing the roof entrance and the garage entrance. That leaves us with 3 options to enter the term from. That's the two entryways from the skybridge, and the GEN-HALLWAY. As I said before, the gen-hallway is easily camped hell, one person can be placed in there. And the skybridge is easily watched by everyone in the term room. There's absolutely no way that defenders can recap the term room area if we're limited to these 3 entryways into the terminal. Ttom has always been trying to OP the terminal itself, such as the old Fair stronghold where Dragoons beat VAK elites.
Considering the Reaper damage, and the number of people they stack at the term room (Which is their entire team) There's no possible way to recap the term. Reapers do 17 damage and high fire rate. If you have your entire team focusing fire on just two entryways- At this point, The two sky-bridges with absolutely no cover until you reach a barricade near the terminal, then it's IMPOSSIBLE to recap.
This logic is nowhere near SMO's rushing capability and fighting style because keep in mind-SMO has mediguns they can heal while they rush, thus negating focus fire. And the term isn't even the priority at SMO which is out of the question.
It completely leaves me breathless that VAK think these updates are "Fair", these updates are not fair to us at all, this is complete and utter slaughter for the defenders. This setup at the term area requires no tactics, and the set-up itself can easily make a bunch of meatshield VACs win against elite defenders just because of the chokepoints.
And before you say, "SH2 has to be set up so that it's equally as fair to SMO" SMO is by fair harder to raid than this current version of stronghold. SMO requires more focus on managing multiple areas of control such as the gate, and walls, and balcony. And the real arguments from the VAK Hi-com strived from the part that they didn’t believe SMO had three objectives, this comes into play because WE consider GATE the most important part of SMO, because if you don’t have gate you CAN’T win raiding SMO, the VAK hi-com disagrees with this perpetually though, so this added onto how Stronghold 2 was deemed “unfixable” to what VAK requested in a base just like SMO, NOW in the forced “Stronghold 2” they want to adjust the base to the point of no-return for the defending side, and really make it impossible in the fact their adjusting it to their own lie of “SMO doesn't have three objectives” in this case, that is why they argued garage and roof should be removed entirely, because they deemed them as “objectives”, this Sh2 that you plan for us to use is a complete joke of a "fairly defensible base."
Now entirely, we’ll offer up the following to the VAK Hi-com, as reasonable and respectable Arcadians shall do, as we pity an enemy that has to resort to false trickery towards the public, in way of most CERTAIN defeat.
SMO 15v12 or SMO 15v10 IN ITS CURRENT OR ORIGINAL STATE, versus a 8v12 stronghold 2 With canyons. https://www.roblox.com/games/421582382/Federation-of-Arcadia-Stronghold-II (our stronghold)
SMO 12v12 with the VAK-FoA War stronghold as ORIGINALLY agreed upon, with ANY updates BEING ADDED, as I told both Ttom25rocks and Bisho, is acceptable-Espressos
https://www.roblox.com/games/442272599/Stronghold-2-VAK-vs-FoA.
Or a fair warzone that is created by both the Vaktovian side and the Arcadian party, that can be used in a 15v15 with a flag or capture point of 18 minutes.
It’s obvious at this point, you can’t take VAK’s road because, as ttom25rocks put it, “the war doesn’t start till we say so (1:13:20 is the timestamp for any one unfamiliar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7nBLxg1NAw)
At this point it's completely justifiable to compare this to all of VAK’s previous wars in the last three years, where the war either never gets started, or it breaks down completely on VAK’s end of breaking blatant war terms, or refusing to fight anymore after initial loss. A GREAT example is the V O I D-VAK war, after being initially dominated Video evidence provided below https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zMUwl0e0hg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3LXPEJP95E (losing five servers in less than an hour, resorted to using officer pistols during official servers to prevent even further loss)
Regarding Polymorphic and Seviro’s “opinions” on FoA asked for by VAK, BOTH leaders were found cheating in wars regarding FoA OR with another clan, in Seviro’s case, A-sov is fond of this occurrence(FEAR provided an entire thread, prooving A-Sov’s cowardice, but just like their friends “VAK” an attempt to discredit the enemies base through negotiations and make it as easy as possible https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=19351484) not to discredit anything from any of the three clans mentioned, but cheaters ALWAYS conspire with cheaters or mischievous un-trustworthy people, and it’s blatantly obvious that all three of the clans conspiring against FoA are cheaters RAT, with the SP Flights( https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=193571901 proof of RAT cheating[1:08:49 PM] Michael: Did RAT update the weapon damages?
[1:09:02 PM] Edward/Uncoverloser: yes
[1:09:04 PM] Edward/Uncoverloser: to my knowledge yes
[1:09:07 PM] Edward/Uncoverloser: in an admiral meeting
[1:09:09 PM] Edward/Uncoverloser: they were talking bout it
[1:09:11 PM] Michael: Okay
), VAK using officer pistols in wars, breaking war terms, and shutting down bases? A-sov with going in and out of declarations of war after losing multiple servers, then resorting to updating the legal district to compensate for the lack of skill? Without even consulting the opposing side? The list could go on but you all get the jist of things.. But i’ll just quote Nederlandz with the following
“Did you ever stop and think that Poly and Seviro were the issues and not FoA? First off, RAT used negotiations to stop other wars, >not just FoA'sTOLD US< they had no intention of ever going to war. They essentially did the same thing with FoA.
With A-SOV, well just look at the past 2-3 weeks for them! They had a failed 1v2 war after they were accused of cheating, and they have entered war after war with a broken base. Not only did Seviro decline FC's war as well, but groups such as FoA's (I believe) and VOID (To the point of group banning them).
The fact that you are including two clans that >CHEAT< as part of your proof is pathetic. Then again, what would I expect from a clan that is renown for cheating?” Here Nederlandz, a RESPECTABLE officer, THAT LEADS Frost Clan from War to War, a clan that doesn’t endorse cheating IN ANY circumstance, make a whole thread, with a part COMPLETELY directed towards the “pitiful and sketchy tactics” of VAK https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=194275981
“I believe that the turning point for clans was the TGI/VAK war. This war was the highlight of clans when it took place, and it was in the spotlight for the entire clan community to witness that VAK could win by cheating and doing underhanded tactics. This was one of the largest stages for clans and this showed that this was okay, that clans can be at the "top" by engaging in such behavior. “---Notice how another individual, that PARTICIPATED in these said wars against this clan, can attest to the underhand tactics of VAK YEARS ago, to win? All over the lack of skill?
“In my mind, I think this was the largest advancement ever made to this clan attitude by a single clan. I'm not saying cheating didn't occur before this, because it did, but it was not at this magnitude nor were those clans at the level of influence that VAK held.”----Another GREAT point, the fact that VAK demands respect and so much out of the clan world, and claims of “never being defeated” “we have the best community” and all these other things...how could one demand respect if you can’t even stay true to your word?...how can one deem themselves the best, if they BREAK their own rules in combat?
“Now, I'm not saying a clan that has engaged in sketchy behavior can't be a top clan. A large amount of clans these days have engaged in said behavior, but my issue with VAK is that they have consistently shown that they have no intentions of altering this behavior or reversing their effect on the clan world.” The TGI-VAK war happened four years ago, but the emphasis on the consistently part...VAK has consistently shown themselves unhonorable and broken multiple rules of combat, they not only agreed to in various wars, but rules of combat they MADE themselves (i.e officer pistols etc, and yes they are two shot weapons, SP-flights are knockoffs in a way)
Tl;dr “The FoA/VAK conflict only further shows that what is detailed in this post is true.
VAK for some reason wants to point towards failed wars of FoA's for this year, but look at VAK's failed wars (and cheating wars) over the past >FOUR< years! “ VAK wants to talk about how negotiations are a troublesome and wasted method, and other clans are to blame for….no one has more failed wars then VAK, in the history of ROBLOX war clans, you would think, evidently it must be the clan that's been in so many failed, instead of successful wars, that maybe their negotiating strategy is a “little bit off”.
So the ULTIMATUM, is reiterated once again with three options, SMO 15v12 or SMO 15v10 IN ITS CURRENT OR ORIGINAL STATE, versus a 8v12 stronghold 2 With canyons. https://www.roblox.com/games/421582382/Federation-of-Arcadia-Stronghold-II (our stronghold)
SMO 12v12 with the VAK-FoA War stronghold as ORIGINALLY agreed upon, with ANY updates BEING ADDED, as I told both Ttom25rocks and Bisho, is acceptable-Espressos
https://www.roblox.com/games/442272599/Stronghold-2-VAK-vs-FoA.
Or a fair warzone that is created by both the Vaktovian side and the Arcadian party, that can be used in a 15v15 with a flag or capture point of 18 minutes. (TIME IS NEGOTIABLE, SO IS RECAP)
FoA is strong, the community is tight-knit with arguments quite a bit, but that's what a family does, argue. We’ve rallied 50+ midnight towards 1 am consistently, and these aren’t planned either, were extremely active and WE do not have to go into a war that will not be fun for our members, or negotiate with a Hi-com that makes it “VAK’s road or no road” as ttom25rocks put it, or another quote by this so favorable General who nonchalant put it “No, this war starts when we tell them too” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7nBLxg1NAw 1:13:20 << is said timestamp; By any means, we could claim superiority over VAK by the track record of whos won more at each others bases via stronghold 2 8v12 and SMO 15v15, and as their Hi-com so gracefully stated, “SMO will be re-opened if the war doesn’t happen indefinitely” WE will still raid you regardless, WE don’t need a war that's fought with words over and over again to draw out the entire summer till the school year, we can CRUSADE on the clan world, and give our members something much better to do, then sit idly by with wasted tales of a war with an Enemy that ALL BUT lied to our forefathers faces in dishonorable trickery in times of war.
Pointed out by VETERAN general DevilishPyro https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=194285852#194287134 “Indeed we need to see the consequences of our actions in terms of war and so decide upon which is the right path in terms of its grander scheme of things including variously different consequences. I myself hold the opinion that we should go back to the old ways of the groups, of the clan world, which is wherefrom the Vaktovian Empire first arose, sprung out of the lost times of forgotten eras.
“ He’s referencing this post here, direct link https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=194258356&PageIndex=12 and we will also reference it as well (Nederlandz, original poster of following paragraph) “I think its important to remember that while individual parts of bases within the past may seem more unfair compared to those of today, bases of the past were actually a lot more fair in terms of actual gameplay. Firstly, due to a variety of members and the acceptance of the clan world, raids were generally easier. Yes, I do agree that people have realized the importance of tactics and such, but I think its also important to take into account some of the aspects of bases of the past. A lot of the advantages of the past were actually countered by more fair aspects, specifically the raider to defender ratio. Most bases offered 5v25 which offset those unfair aspects and actually made it really fun to defend (Against the odds) and be a Raider at the same time (Because clans did still have some advantages that you had to deal with). However, as clans have progressed, >many< of these advantages (Spawn distances, guns, divisional advantages, etc.) have remained in bases while the raider to defender ratio has become more equal. I find this extremely unfair, a trend that has caused bases to become a lot more difficult, Which also plays a part in devaluing the average member. Clans need skilled people and the average member of the past simply can't put up a fight against these bases. But why did bases become much more difficult? It's because this clan attitude of "doing anything to win" has caused clans to increase their base difficulty so that they can hold onto some type of "reputation" and be "strong." “ -----------------------
THIS paragraph is INSTITUTIONAL in the fact it references how fun raids, wars and defenses were, FOR both sides, despite the massive out-numbering issue “5v25” specifically the part where these guns, divisional advantages, and spawn distances, REMAIN in bases, while the defender ratio has become MORE EQUAL, and the reasoning for this PROVES to be true, because clans will do “anything” to win if they resort to tactics like this, let’s look at VAK, doing ANYTHING to win a war, in the last three years . Breaking their own war terms, using officer pistols, refusing to defend servers. THIS IS A LITERAL example of what the problem is.
Additionally, the continuation of such detrimental attitude towards opposing clans, only causes other clans that it’s OKAY to do the same, Clans in general have lost a sense of honor and integrity, we find new clans, and old clans taken on by NEW youth, NEW leadership, doing these same, foul underhand tactics because clans like VAK have made it the norm, and we use VAK as the normal reference because they out of pure respect on the notions they were founded on, created, and were able to carry for two years, shouldn’t have ever stooped to these tactics, and made them normal and EVEN converse with clans that do the same, “cheaters conspire with cheaters”
Another thread will most likely be posted around midnight tonight, as a part 2.
Tried to hire a stylist, couldn't style me, cant keep me under control im rowdy.
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